Last night Robert and I got into an "interesting" conversation about the purpose of trials and I have been thinking about our different perspectives ever since. We were both flabbergasted as to how the other person could possibly think the way they thought. It went something like this, "What!? That's what you think?!" "Really?! Wow." He expressed how if he was going through something difficult and he knew it was a trial directly given by God, then that was a great comfort to him and no matter what it was, he could get through it because of that perspective. I, on the other hand, think the complete opposite. If I was going through something horrendous, it would trouble me to know that God had directly given me that trial and would make me feel like a rat in a maze with God constantly moving the cheese to see what I would do next. It comforts me much more to think that the things that happen to me are caused by living in an imperfect world, but that anything that happened to me, God would help me find purpose in it and comfort me. We both couldn't believe that the other one thought what they thought, so I am interested to know what YOU think. I am sure that our trials are the result of both God giving us trials AND the earth's natural laws as well as people's free agency. But which way of thinking gives YOU more comfort?
PS We really need to stop having these "deep" conversations . . .
8 comments:
I really think I have to 'side' with Robert on this one. Though I believe a lot of trials do come from the results of natural laws and free agency, I believe God is in complete control of both those things. Therefore the greatest comfort for me would be in that knowledge of His ultimate control. And that (hopefully) would be what I needed to have the faith to get through the trial. Great thought provoking question!
(Thanks for your comments on my blog. I was slightly worried you'd be mad that I 'shared your story.' I agree with you 100% I think we mothers ARE a lot more alike than we are different.)
Sandy, I loved this post. Both perspectives are so interesting in their own ways. This is such a deep question I haven't really thought about. I agree with you on the whole mouse with a piece of cheese thing. I have sometimes felt like I am one of God's pawns in the game of life and it can sometimes feel overwhelming if you think of it that way and that although I have free agency, it is ultimately God that can change my life in an instant and I have no control over that. It makes me feel helpless and defenseless (even if it is true) Both of you have good perspectives, but to me, I wouldn't be any more comforted knowing that God directly and specifically gave me that trial. I think the perspective Robert has is more of a biblical perspective and a perspective that many religious people hold; however, it isn't necessarily the most comforting way (for ME) of dealing with a tough situation. People who hold this perspective can easily become bitter and say, well if God gave me this trial, then WHY ME? Why this? Why now on top of everything else? It's easier for me knowing that I live in an imperfect world and that it being imperfect is part of God's plan and that I have free agency, and that a trial is just part of my imperfect life to help me grow in ways I never imagined is a better way for me personally to just accept things as they are and move on. When I only think in the example Robert gave, I find myself questioning more, why me, why now, and looking at others with ten horrific trials and thinking, REALLY? Why does that person have all these horrible things and why them? Can't they just be given the one? But ten?? Really? Anyway, I might change my mind later, but great post.
I don't believe in trials.
I'd like to believe there is some purpose to the difficulties in life, and the difficult people in life. But more and more I think it's all just a random crap shoot. The best you can do is try to make the most of the life you've been given.
Sorry sweet Robert, I completely agree with Sandy. Here are my thoughts for what they're worth. I think God is a parent just like us and we would NEVER think of creating heartache for a child just to watch them "grow." What a cruel God he would be! Life is hard enough as it is! That theory would also mean that those with more trials are in NEED of more growth which seems pretty harsh. What about the Holocaust? Did he orchestrate that one too? By saying that God causes trials would mean that we aren't accountable for the evils we/ others perpetrate because it was God's will for that to happen. To imply that every trial on this earth has divine purpose just doesn't seem to mesh with the actions of a loving God. Would God really create adultery, suicides, cancer, murders, starvation, sex trafficking, slavery, homelessness, kidnappings, job less etc., etc, etc. I think that for the most part he steps back and watches us deal with life's natural consequences as a result of man's choices.... and only occasionally steps in. I also don't think It's fair to pin the tragedies and evils of men on him either. It's like the child that blames all their problems on their parents instead of accepting that sometimes things happen because ourselves and/or others exercise bad judgment, period! I think that God may play a role in our trials but only by hoping/ helping us to to somehow, in the end, find a way to overcome and possibly grow from such hardships. This would hopefully bring us closer to him as a result. In my view, that is where God comes in, not before. And there you have the doctrine according to Rebecca Curtis. Amen.
This issue is a pet-peeve of mine and one that came up in church last week. The speaker was talking about how God gave her, her specific trials because He knew that she could handle them. These trials consisted of many things she created in her own life by her own choices. At the same time I was thinking about the people in Cambodia and all of their collective trials which are so much worse than anything in the U.S. Just one example is the sex trafficking that goes on down there. They kidnap young girls (around age 12) from the villages put them in a basement, chain them to the wall and then force them to have sex with disgusting men every single night. Many of the men have AIDS. And (I am not kidding you I saw it) they have little torture chambers down there in case the girls complain. They force abortions as soon as they start to show (3 months sometimes). Anyway, did God choose these young, poor Cambodia girls to experience this hell because he knew they could handle it!! How fortunate that he knew I couldn't handle it (sarcasm). Those girls can not handle it either! Our problems are not orchestrated. We live in a troubled world and we can look to God for help and relief and comfort- but our troubles are brought about by a trillion different factors that led us to be that person at that state of time and place in the world- it involves accidents and natural laws and things that just go wrong. It involves other people's choices (bad and good) that act upon other circumstances. That is what I think anyway.
One more thing I wanted to add here. Mike thinks that only LDS (or in other words covenant people) are given trials that they can handle and for their own good- everything else is just random. Perhaps this is what Robert thinks too.
This is Neal speaking so here goes for what it's worth....Well, first off I'd like to thank you for stirring up a heated debate (fight) between me and Rebecca. In my humble opinion I think you are both right. I remember a gospel doctrine lesson I taught several years ago in which it was outlined that there are really 3 basic types of trials.
1) Those that just happen by chance (accidents,etc.)
2) Those that are a result of bad choices (smokers getting cancer, Tiger Wood's losing endorsements because of his philandering with hookers, etc.)
3) Those given by a loving God that knows us perfectly in order to help us obtain the growth we need so we can return to live with him.
While I feel that the majority of trials are likely in the first two categories I do think at times some are given to us by God. Having said that please understand by no means do I get fuzzy warm feelings inside when bad things happen to me. I really can't say I agree with the member that says they are thankful for their trials because truthfully inside I'm usually thinking "man this really sucks." I'm pretty sure living with God in the pre-existence was much better than living here on earth however he sent us here for several reasons. It was planned that we would be tried and tested with the end goal of salvation in mind. For those that say "a loving God would never impose heartbreak and hardship on his children, that just doesn't make sense" the question must be asked "Well isn't that exactly what he did when he sent us to earth?" And there you have it, I will now shut up and go try to make peace with my beautiful loving bride....(see how I have grown from my most recent trial of fighting with my wife, I feel more love and respect for her than I did an hour ago..........yeah right, whatever!
P.S. Can we have next weeks discussion be on whether or not you should go to bed angry at your spouse? I actually think it works quite well and as a matter of fact I will be trying it out tonight.
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